In conversation with Anke Verhagen, a former participant of the Rabobank's RTA program. I can feel the energy and drive; she goes for it, just as Anna Bouman had already told me about her.

“Through the RTA Program, I didn't start doing completely different things, but I do have a clearer sense of the direction I'm moving in. Even though I didn't have leadership ambitions, colleagues gave me feedback that they see those qualities in me. I now realize what form of leadership energizes me.”

What form is that?

"For me, it's about getting an idea into people's minds so that others also start engaging with it. It truly has to matter. Currently, that is sustainable real estate and affordable housing, but financially healthy living or gender equality could also fall under that. So, a societal theme that involves system change. Specifically, things we all consider normal, but which are not. Our blind spots. I don't just want to provide insight, but also a perspective: what must we then do to change this?”

A change was also awaiting you with the acquisition of your department by BPD. How was this for you?

"That was a very interesting experience! What helped enormously was an exercise we had done on the purpose walk. I visualized then that I wanted to do something with area development, and a few months later it was announced: 'Hello, you are being acquired by BPD.' This is the largest area developer in the Netherlands. I knew: now I can't say no. My visualization was being offered to me on a silver platter."

This sounds like a simple choice, though I imagine it wasn't that easy after 18 years at Rabobank?

"I had to say yes to myself, but I did need a month to align my head and heart. So, while it was a 'yes' rationally, I didn't feel it right away. I needed time for that, and I went through phases of anger, sadness, and disappointment. I am always involved in change, but when I had to change myself, I wondered: am I really willing to change? I learned that time is important in this, and that I need to allow myself and everyone the time to be able to change."

What change are you in now?

"That is about being completely open. I have been steeped in Rabobank for eighteen years. Things are done differently here at BPD, and I want to be open to that. I am also open to this new step in a more general sense. It wasn't my choice, but I consciously chose to join with joy and enthusiasm. If this 'fails,' that's okay too, because if I hadn't joined, that would have been a choice based on fear. The experience I am gaining now is so valuable! It gives me a certain kind of control, by constantly answering the question: what am I learning from this?"

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